The Neuroscience of Innovation: Curiosity, Safety, and Leading with Heart with Dr. Chika Stacy Oriuwa.

"Innovation starts when we get curious about ourselves—then the world." - Dr Chika Oriuwa

In this episode, Dr. Chika Stacy Oriuwa unpacks the neuroscience behind resilience, creativity, and compassionate leadership. Discover how to activate curiosity, build high-performing teams, and lead with both emotional intelligence and innovation.

What if the key to high-impact leadership isn't toughness or talent—but curiosity, compassion, and your brain's capacity to connect?

Key Takeaway Insights and Tools 

• The Innovation Blueprint – 3-Step Leadership Framework
  Dr. Oriuwa introduces her model: Prime your mind through curiosity, creativity, and critical thinking; ignite innovation in others through compassionate leadership; and harmonize collective genius through psychological safety.
  
  
• Curiosity Fuels Innovation via Dopamine
  Curiosity activates the brain’s discovery domain (default mode network), releasing dopamine and creating intrinsic motivation for learning and innovation.
  
  
• Creativity = Risk + Pattern Recognition
  Great creativity happens when we find invisible strings between unrelated ideas. Encourage it by taking small risks daily and prioritizing quality sleep to support REM-stage insight.
  
  
• Cognitive + Emotional Empathy in Leadership
  Emotionally intelligent leaders access both emotional and cognitive empathy—staying connected without being overwhelmed. This balance boosts trust while protecting resilience.
  
  
• Psychological Safety Is Neurobiological
  Fear-based leadership activates the amygdala and shuts down creativity. Compassionate leadership, however, promotes oxytocin, clarity, and trust—enabling high performance under pressure.
  
  
• Critical Thinking Relies on Intellectual Humility
  Dr. Oriuwa breaks down how challenging assumptions and staying open to new perspectives sharpens decision-making and leadership adaptability.
  
  
• Mirror Neurons and Culture Contagion
  Authenticity and compassion trigger mirror neurons, spreading emotional safety and high standards across teams—creating resilient, human-centered cultures.

Bio

Dr. Chika Stacey Oriuwa is a Canadian physician, award-winning author, and spoken word poet who made history as the first Black woman to be sole valedictorian at the University of Toronto’s Faculty of Medicine. A first-generation Nigerian-Canadian, she’s a prominent advocate for mental health, equity, and system change. Her debut memoir, Unlike the Rest: A Doctor’s Story, was released in 2024 by HarperCollins. She is currently completing her psychiatry residency with a focus on neuropsychiatry and forensic medicine.

Follow her work via HarperCollins or by searching @chikaoriuwa.

Books

• Unlike the Rest: A Doctor’s Story – HarperCollins, 2024

If this episode sparked your thinking, share it with a leader or friend who believes in making innovation human. And don’t forget to subscribe to It’s an Inside Job for weekly insights that help you lead from the inside out.

Chapters

• 0:08 Introduction to Resilience
• 0:26 The Drive Behind Innovation
• 2:18 Exploring Neuroscience and Leadership
• 26:35 The Innovation Blueprint Unpacked
• 28:34 Igniting Capacity in Others
• 37:02 Harmonizing for Collective Intelligence
• 45:46 Closing Reflections on Leadership

Transcript

Speaker: 0:04

This is It's an Inside Job, and I'm your host, Jason Lim. This is the show where we explore the stories, strategies, and science behind growing resilience, nurturing well-being, and leading with intent. Because when it comes down to it, it's all an inside job. Welcome back and thank you for joining me at the top of a fresh new week so now let's begin by priming your mind have you ever wondered what really drives innovation not just in business but in yourself what if creativity leadership and resilience weren't just traits but practices we could actually train in our brains well to unpack this and to learn more about it, I'm joined by the extraordinary guest, Dr. Chika Stacey-Oriwa. She's a Canadian physician, award-winning author, and a nationally ranked spoken word poet. She made history as the first black woman to be named sole valedictorian at the University of Toronto's Faculty of Medicine. A first-generation Nigerian-Canadian, she's become a powerful voice for mental health, equity, and systematic change in healthcare. She's currently completing her psychiatry residency with a focus on neuropsychiatry and just released her memoir, Unlike the Rest, A Doctor's Story. In our conversation today, we cover a lot in a short time. How curiosity sparks dopamine in the brain and drives innovation. Why compassionate leadership isn't just good practice, but neurobiologically essential. And how high functioning teams are built on pressure, but on psychological safety and trust. She also opens up about embracing humanity over perfection. And the importance of creating space for vulnerability, even in the most high-achieving environments. Maybe you're a leader looking to elevate your impact, maybe a parent trying to raise emotionally resilient kids, or just someone curious about how your brain supports or sabotages your best efforts. Well, I think in this conversation, there is something for you. So without further ado, let's slip into the stream and meet Dr. Chica Stacey Arrua. Welcome back, everyone, to It's an Inside Job. Today, we're diving into what really means to lead with resilience in a world that is constantly shifting. We'll explore the neuroscience of leadership, how innovation starts with human connection, and why emotional challenge is more critical than ever at home, at work, and in the age of accelerating technology. To help us unpack all of this is Dr. Chika Uruwa, a physician, speaker, and advocate whose story blends science, compassion, and lived experience. Chika, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Could we kick off by you introducing who you are and what you do? Absolutely. So my name is Dr. Chika Riwa. I am a mother of two toddlers, a three-year-old boy and a two-year-old girl. And I am a resident psychiatrist. So I'm in the middle of my training and it is my goal to do a fellowship, actually to do two fellowships, one in neuropsychiatry, also known as brain medicine, and the second in forensics. And so I have a real passion with looking at that intersection, like that forensic neuropsychiatry lens. And I am a poet, a writer, an artist, a performer, truly a creative in every sense of the word. I've been performing and writing poetry since elementary school. And I just recently released my first book, a memoir, entitled Unlike the Rest, A Doctor's Story, and that was released with HarperCollins back in 2024. So my journey is one that has been quite an interesting and I guess you could say a singular narrative, but I definitely do believe that it touches on this ubiquitous notion of belonging and that yearning for connection. And I want to explore that today with you, both as an author, a poet, a doctor. You are, in a sense, a Renaissance woman. You've dipped your finger in many different areas and disciplines. And today, what I'd like to do is maybe touch on that confluence between neuroscience, leadership, and that could be self-leadership, the sense of belonging, and resilience. And I'd just like to open up to you, where would you like to begin? That's a great question. You know, I would say that I guess I am always most fascinated by the neuroscience behind leadership, for sure. But I also think a great touch point would be this idea of what does it actually mean to be genuinely disconnected? And maybe even, you know, the inverse of that, what does it mean to be disconnected? And as leaders, how is it that we are able to tap into that meaningful connection in order to properly lead? You've been on a road trip, per se, over the past few weeks, if not months, speaking to this. Perhaps we could start there, because I found in our pre-interview that I found it very engaging, just in our short meeting, what you touched upon in that keynote. Where would you like to start there? Because I think that was a very interesting entry point into this confluence we want to cover today. Absolutely. So I would love to start with maybe mapping out what exactly my new keynote touches on, which is the innovation blueprint. And it's a very simple framework for how it is that we can unlock the full potential of our mind leadership, as well as our collective genius. and it really is a roadmap for those we love and those we lead. And it's three simple steps, really. The first of which is that in order for us to truly create meaningful innovation through leadership, we first must prime our own minds to be innovative. So leveraging that power of neuroscience. The second step is igniting the same potential in those that we lead. And the third step is harmonizing our collective innovative minds to unlock that full potential for good. And so the priming our minds, it has three simple steps, which is leaning into our ability to be curious, creative, and critically think. That's how we prime our own minds for innovation. Then as leaders, in order for us to ignite that same innovative potential in those we lead, whether it's a corporate world or in the community or even... In our homes, we need to be compassionate and authentic leaders in order to ignite that same potential for others. And then lastly, as leaders, we need to harmonize our collective efforts through creating psychologically safe spaces where people not only feel welcome, but encouraged to share their unconventional thoughts, their full creativity, to collaborate fearlessly, to learn how to take smart but necessary risks, this is what is going to create an environment where we can be collectively innovative. Because the greatest threats that we face as a society, as humanity, are going to rely upon us being collectively innovative, not just our individual capacity for innovation. Let's start there. You know, in a world that we've answered that is more complex more chaotic more challenging and so much change coming at us at on so many different levels i think the ability to lead others starts with i think step one priming our own minds leading ourselves you've talked about sort of curiosity and critical thinking could we open that up and talk a little more detail because what i like to do in all these, episodes I have with, you know, people of your caliber is to talk broad, but to bring it down to its essence, some skills that our listeners can use five minutes after our conversation, Chika. Absolutely. And what I love about this new keynote is that I provide actionable skills that are innate to us. We just need to lean into what is already within our grasp, within our capacity and things that our brains are designed to do, which is what I love about this keynote, because I'm not asking you to climb Mount Everest or to, you know, create, you know, how to split the atom or anything like that. What I'm asking them to do is very quite accessible. And so if you if we start with this idea of, OK, let's prime our minds, that's the first pillar. We want to look at the curiosity. So when we're looking at neuroscience, there's a particular circuit known as the default mode network. And I like to just call it the discovery domain. I try to make things as simple as possible. This discovery domain is going to be activated anytime that we are in discovery mode. So anytime that we're imagining or ideating, daydreaming, even brainstorming. And any time that we're reflecting on past experiences or even imagining infinite possibility. So really when you're in that discovery zone, but especially whenever we are curious. And so when we're thinking about priming our minds, we want to leverage this incredible built-in system that our brain already has to make us more curious. So whenever we are curious, our minds are going to release dopamine, and that is going to be the feel-good neurotransmitter. So there's that built-in reward system of, oh, it feels good to be curious. So it's for that same reason that anytime we're learning something that is new to us, that novelty, but we find it deeply fascinating, it's going to have that warmth to it, that feel-good effect. It's also for the same reason why you know when when my daughter throws spaghetti on the ground and she looks up at me with that you know that toddler menacing mischievous look it also feels good because it's learning that cause and effect it's that curiosity and so our mind is going to want to continue to chase that good feeling of being curious so what are some things that you can do to prop that up you can engage in things that are going to activate that discovery domain So like daydreaming, for example. Exposing your mind to novelty is also going to make you a more naturally curious person. Of course, if you are allowing yourself to ask the big unconventional questions, that's going to be of aid as well. But also doing other things that also engage that network. So say if you're getting curious about your own past experiences, so you're journaling, you're really writing out your thoughts, I find that the more curious we become about ourselves, then the more curious we become about the world, right? So again, I think that the key component here, just to make it very simple, if there's one thing I would recommend is to push yourself outside of the comfort zone and embrace that novelty. So whether it's trying new foods or listening to music that you might not have listened to before or going and watching a film or listening to a podcast that wouldn't originally pique your interest. But you're going to just put yourself slightly outside of that comfort zone and allow your mind to have that that new these new novel inputs and just see how it is that your mind is going to really embrace that curiosity, that natural discovery and really lean into that. So that's one. When it comes to curiosity, that's like some of the ways that you can do that. And then when it comes to this creativity, which is one of my favorite things to talk about, because I'm a poet, I'm a writer, I've been... Honestly, the way that my brain works, I would say that I view the world through metaphors and similes, and that's just how I analyze everything, even medicine. It makes it easier for me to view the body in a very poetic way. And so... I often say that when it comes to creativity, at the heart of any kind of creative act is risk, right? We look at the most highly creative people around us, whether it's the fashion designers or the musicians or the whatever, and the best ones at what they're doing are often taking the biggest risks. And that tends to lead to the most creative and most interesting thing. And a core component of creativity alongside the risk is this idea of finding invisible strings. And what I mean by that is that can you, do you have the ability to look at two disparate ideas or thoughts and find the thing that connects them? That is at the heart of creativity. And in my keynote, I give the example of Fujifilm, the photography company, who when they realized that digital photography was going to outpace film photography, they were able to find the invisible strings between their film coatings and cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, medical imaging. And now they are this tech giant that has revenue streams in each of these different industries outside of photography. So again, that's a really big risk, right, for their team to take, but huge reward. And that divergent thinking, finding these invisible strings, that is going to be the hallmark of creativity. So how do we make ourselves more creative? I say that simplest thing you can do is start to build your capacity to learn how to take smart risks. What does that look like? Maybe you're striking up a conversation with the barista. Maybe you are meeting someone at a conference and you're going to say to yourself, I'm going to ask this person next to me what brings them here and what they're most excited to learn, right? It's about taking and building that risk-taking capacity and then also giving yourself a chance to rest because the brain, it is more likely to find these invisible strings in the REM stage of sleep. So when you allow your mind to sleep and get into those deeper stages of sleep, you're going to be more likely to make these connections. So that's why we wake up with these aha moments or these, oh, I finally find out the solutions after you give yourself a bit of rest. So, again, actionable things that our bodies are meant to do that will make us more highly creative people. Can I just jump in there for a second? Yeah, I'm going off and off. No, no, no, no. I think it's I have a couple of questions. There's it's fascinating. I just need to rewind a little. So the creativity just because consciously we can only focus really on one thing at a time. You know, the brain, at least from what I understand, we can focus on one thing at a time. But if we program our deeper minds, whether we call that the subconscious or the conscious, whatever vernacular. And then we give it enough data. Can the mind run several permutations in the background as we're showering, walking the dog, working? You know, it's running in the background. As you said, part of that is when we are in deep REM sleep that our brains can make the connections and such. But understanding creativity, is it sometimes just, you know, we want to answer a question, but we don't know how to do it. But we give our brains enough data to kind of work with. and then we go off with our day doing other things. Can the brain process multiple things at the same time, sort of in the unconscious from your perspective? That is my understanding. I don't want to misspeak, but my understanding is that absolutely when we give ourselves a chance to kind of step back. So this idea of like letting your mind wander, going and, you know, going for a walk outside and just kind of letting your mind percolate on things. We also have this idea of people who have, I get my best ideas in the shower. Like, why is that the thing is because you're in such a relaxed state and you're allowing the mind to make the connections between all the different things that it's processing, right? Like the brain has such an incredible capacity that it will be doing that heavy lifting for you when you give yourself, ironically, the chance to step away from that intense focusing, that intense, you know, strategizing and trying to do that difficult cognitive work. So, you know, it doesn't, it does not have to be REM sleep by any means, but giving yourself a chance to just relax is going to really, really help your ability to find those beautiful connections. So it's for that same reason that, you know, anytime that you are studying, and I know this from all of the studying that I did in medical school, but anytime that you are studying for an exam, it's not helpful for your mind to sit there. And be trying to absorb all this information for hours and hours and hours. You'll actually retain the information, consolidate the information better, and have a better dexterity around the information if you give yourself those structured breaks. And it's for that reason that I never stayed up ever before a medical school exam. I never pulled an all-nighter because I needed to give my mind that chance to consolidate all of the information that I was taking in before a medical school exam. And so rest is going to be so imperative when it comes to our ability to function at a very high cognitive level, especially as leaders when we're tasked with making really critical and often time-sensitive decisions. And so the default mode network, the default would suggest, or at least I'm thinking that that's sort of the automatic state of the brain. So when we are on idle or daydreaming or out for a walk, focusing on other things, that's a network that lights up in our brain, which is the sort of innate curiosity and creativity when we're in that state. Is that what I understand? Yeah, yeah. So the, well, the creativity, the interesting thing about it is that there is a super... Function, I would say there's a super connectivity between the two primary networks in the brain that I really talk on in my keynote. And the second one, I didn't quite have a chance to get to yet, but it's tied to that critical thinking, which is that executive control network. It has a strong predominance in the prefrontal cortex. So higher order thinking, executive function, all of our strategizing, focusing, analyzing, it goes on in the prefrontal cortex. So highly creative individuals, they have this strong connection between the discovery domain, so the default mode network, and what I like to call the decision domain, that executive control network. So they are able to toggle between ideating very largely, embracing novelty, and also executing with precision and clarity. So that's why you see that, you know, highly creative individuals, yes, it looks like something that is brazing and daring, but it often works, Right. Like people just think like that makes sense, but it's so creative. Whereas if you have an idea that is like wildly imaginative, but you can't execute on it, then that is not necessarily the, you know, a hallmark of great creativity. So that would be kind of the, the distinction that's, that's there. Yeah, so the discovery mode, as you've articulated, that is the default mode network. That's when we're kind of on automatic, we could be daydreaming, we could be, and that's where that can automatically trigger our curiosity. But the other network you're talking about was the decision domain, where the prefrontal cortex, the PFC, our higher thinking, the domain for our executive abilities. So both of these networks, either one is on and the other is off, not off, but it's dampened. It's sort of you can't have both running at the same time at the same level, or is it sort of a seesaw type of? That's a great question that i don't necessarily i don't want to speak out of turn and say like i know exactly that answer my own curiosity going off here yeah and you know i i would say that because highly creative individuals have that strong functional connectivity between the two i don't think i i don't think that it is you know either you're in that you're either in one domain or you're in another domain, I wouldn't necessarily say that to be accurate because I also think our brain has the capacity to be engaged in different ways at different times. But again, I don't want to misspeak. And I think the beauty of doing this research is also recognizing the limitations of my own knowledge and appreciating that. I have so much to learn from the neuroscientists and the researchers who like this, this is their area of expertise. This is their domain. And I'm coming in with a master's in innovation and leadership and with a medical degree and, you know, completing my residency in psychiatry. And yet I still bow to others who I'm sure have done like significant years of research in this one particular area. And what I have done is, you know, expose myself to as much of the research as I can regarding it. But I think, you know, in order to practice what is a necessary component of my blueprint, which when it comes to critical thinking, how do we improve our critical thinking, we embrace our intellectual humility. We recognize the bounds of our knowledge. We remain insatiably hungry to learn, you know, and we look to those who have knowledge in ways that we don't. And we don't pretend to know it all because that's one of the most dangerous things I think you can do as a great thinker, but also as a doctor. And so embracing that humility is something that I really do try to practice. Creativity, as you said, it was about finding those invisible strings. It's finding the connection between two things that are quietly different, like a bell and banana. What are the similarities per se, right? And so that would, for me, that's kind of divergent thinking where you can play with all sorts of ideas. You're not killing any ideas. You're just divergent. But then the critical thinking, the PFC, what you call the decision domain, that's more of the convergent thinking maybe where we can ask more critical questions. Could you kindly elaborate on critical thinking and some skills we can use to. Converge on looking at some of the ideas we've had? Absolutely. And that's, you know, that's the That's the beauty of, I think, when we're thinking about how it is that we can make our minds more innovative, we do need to have that flexibility in our thinking, right? We need to have that divergent thinking, finding those invisible strings. But then the next step to that, in order to create real impact, you have to strategically vet things. You have to critically analyze things. And that does engage the prefrontal cortex. So in my keynote, I give two very simple steps, the first of which I've already talked about, which is this idea of intellectual humility. So a true hallmark of intellect is one's own ability to challenge their own assumptions and biases. Because I think that when, and we often see this, especially in our world that's highly polarized, when we get too deeply cemented into one way of thinking, and we don't have the ability to receive new information and potentially change our ideas. So that's known as cognitive rigidity. So if you have that cognitive rigidity because you are unwilling to question your own biases or assumptions, you're unwilling to do this, you will make more mistakes. You will be less critical of a thinker because you're not willing to deeply analyze things properly. And so having that intellectual humility also allows you, again, to expose yourself to novelty. So that's something that I often say, you know, if you want to make yourself a critical thinker, are you willing to engage in discourse with someone who might not have the exact same perspective on the world as you do? And it's a very, very difficult thing to sit outside of our comfort zones, right? But it's so necessary when it comes to learning how to challenge your own assumptions and biases. And that's a skill that we learn a lot in medical school, right? When it comes to how is it that we become better critical thinkers, which is at the heart of what medical training teaches you. Yes you get a lot of information but what they're really think treating you how to do is to think like a doctor which means you're given the set of information the worst thing you can do as a doctor is to put a knee jerk you know slap a label stop a diagnosis oh i've seen this before no don't worry but then you get a patient who is like well every doctor is kind of giving me the same thing but it's not it's not exactly fitting or things aren't right and then you lead to misdiagnoses because you're not willing to step back and look at the bigger picture and maybe think again. So that is a key hallmark of critical thinking. The other component to that is this idea of intellectual dexterity, which is, do you have the capacity to take a concept, break it down into its constituents. Really understand the nuances of it, and then distill it down to different levels? So, you know, Einstein says that you know you're a genius if you have the ability to explain something to a six-year-old, right? So it's that same idea of, can you explain your concept or your reasoning to a kindergartner, to a high schooler, to a graduate student, and then to a PhD level student? So changing your audience and your demographic and how it is that you distill and anchor that information is going to be a direct reflection of the critical way in which you've analyzed it. And so that's something that, of course, is not as easily accessible as just like walking around and daydreaming, but it will be a key component to really becoming a better critical thinker. In the first part of our conversation, Chica introduced the Innovation Blueprint, a framework with three steps, priming the mind for innovation through curiosity, creativity, and critical thinking, and then igniting those traits in others through compassionate leadership, and then finally, harmonizing collective efforts in psychological safe environments. We explored how the brain supports curiosity and creativity. Now, Dr. Irua explained how the brain's default mode network, or what she called the discovery domain, activates during reflection, brainstorming, and daydreaming, helping us to generate novel ideas. Curiosity, she noted, triggers dopamine, reinforcing exploration. To cultivate it, she suggested seeking novelty and asking bold, unconventional questions. Creativity, she added, thrives on risk-taking and pattern recognition. Spotting connections others might overlook. She used Fujifilm as an example of a company that successfully reinvented itself through creative thinking. From there, we discussed rest and its essential role in creativity. She emphasized that REM sleep enables the brain to form new connections, and that letting the mind wander can boost insight. We also talked about structure breaks, how stepping back and sharpen focus and decision-making, especially in leadership roles. We also looked at the balance between creativity and critical thinking. According to Dr. Ua, the most innovative individuals can fluidly shift between ideation and analysis, a process linked to strong neural connections between the default mode and executive control networks. This balance relies on intellectual humility, and that's the ability to question assumptions, confront biases, and stay mentally flexible. So now let's slip back to the stream with part two of my fascinating conversation with Dr. Arua. Prime your own mind for innovation. Great. Done that. Amazing. Now let's ignite this capacity in others. And it's really quite simple. In my keynote, I do break it down a little bit more, but it's really quite simple. So I use this example. Picture this. There's someone who had stayed up all night, you know, rehearsing and preparing for this really important career defining presentation to a room full of executives. They walk in there and they're met with very stoic, cold glares. You know, there's no warm hand extending them. They have a reputation that precedes them of being harsh and critical and like devaluing the individuals within the company. But you go in there, you try to do your best. You stumble, you falter. They're asking you really hard questions on the material that require critical thinking. And then you just, you know, your mind draws a blank, even though you know that you know, and even though you have the ability to have that agility in the moment, your mind still draws a blank. So what happens at that time is that we tend to see that the amygdala, that fear center of our brain, it's going to get activated. It's a perceived threat. It's that anxiety. It's that fear. And whenever that happens, we have that increase in stress. So that cortisol is going to rise within our body. And the fascinating thing is that anytime we get anxious, scared, whatever, we go into survival mode. And what happens is that instead of using our super evolved, great, you know. Innovative networks that often preside at the front, at the forefront of the brain, right, the part that is most evolved, we're going to shrink back into our primitive survival mode. So that is going to be, you know, the amygdala, that's where that lives. So it shuts off our access to the beautiful networks that are needed for innovation, or just needed for critical thinking, or needed for, you know, anything that involves that higher order thinking. So you get scared, it gets shut off. Now imagine if you had entered into that room, And instead of cold, hard glares, you are met with a kindness, a warmth. Maybe, you know, they're still firm, but they're known for being kind. And they extend a warm hand. They say, you know, we're really excited to hear your presentation. We hope you do well. And they have very high standards, but they also have a reputation of valuing the people that work in that company and infusing in them the belief that they can meet these high standards. So yeah, you still might be a bit nervous, but your likelihood of being successful in that moment is much higher because there was that moment of genuine human connection, especially if they like, you know, shook your hand or let you know, like, you can do this, you're going to be great. Then we have this rise in oxytocin, right? And that's going to be the hormone that is implicated in social bonding and trust and safety. So it's going to be that feel good hormone that we also get when we cuddle babies or like hug a puppy. It's that again, that feel good. And that is going to calm the chaos of our mind, give us that mental clarity in that space so that we can access our discovery domain. We can access our creativity, our critical thinking. So truly a great leader will have the ability to be authentic and compassionate because that is what is going to calm the chaos of anyone's mind and allow them to ignite that potential for innovation. I think an important thing you said is it's creating psychological safety or psychosocial emotional safety to broaden the term, because I think that's critical and fundamental. But at the same time, a lot of people think, OK, everyone has to feel nice. It's not about that. As you said, if I walk into that room and I'm going to have a presentation, that group, that audience in front of me may be critical, but they're open to hear me. But they expect me to perform at a high standard. That's why I'm there. That's why I've been invited to the table to contribute. And so it's not about me, about them giving everything to me to be so flexible, but I have to meet certain standards. So it means having hard conversations as well as supportive conversations. Is that what I understand, Chika? Absolutely. I mean, I think that there is this misconception that in order to be an authentic and compassionate leader, you have to be a pushover or you need to shy away from hard conversations or you're going to sugarcoat everything. I don't think that's true. I like to use the example of parenting, right? You want to be firm, but you want to be kind. You want to be firm, but you want to be fair. And there's a way to hold that balance, especially as a leader in the community or in the corporate or organizational sense, where you can learn how to provide critique in a way that is not going to inherently devalue the person in front of you, right? Because the worst thing that you can do as a leader, if you're not being compassionate, is that you're going to make it such that that person internalizes any kind of failure or any kind of misstep. you're going to corrode their resilience, right? Whereas a great leader is going to tell you, maybe this didn't meet the mark, but I believe you have the capacity to meet the mark because I have high expectations of you because I know that you can do it, right? And I say the same thing with my son. Anytime that, of course, he's three and he's doing regular three-year-old things that are frustrating, I have to remind him, I know that you are a kind boy and so I expect you to behave in a kind way. And the way that you're behaving right now is not acceptable. So it's that same. Idea of you can still be kind and you can still be a great leader and you can still deliver and execute in the ways that are necessary. And in the, in the keynote, I talk about how it is that as a, as a, as a leader who is authentic and compassionate, you're going to engage three great kind of neurological things that again, our brains are designed to do. So when, when we're authentic and compassionate, as I mentioned before, oxytocin goes up for me and you, it's a feel good time. It's great. The second thing is that authentic and compassionate leaders are better able to access their prefrontal cortex, which means that they will make smarter and stronger and better decisions under pressure when you're authentic and compassionate towards everyone, but especially towards yourself. And then the last bit is that it activates mirror neurons. So if I'm being super authentic and compassionate, then you, Jason, just by witnessing what I am doing, your mirror neurons will be activated such that you are subconsciously going to begin to emulate that authenticity and that compassion. This is how you create a contagion of... Authenticity and compassion, but also this contagion of psychological safety and kindness. And that's how you create a deeply connected environment, whether it's at home or whether it's at work, whereas the opposite or the inverse is true. If I am leading through intimidation and fear and threatening as a leader. Then everyone's kind of, you know, networks, everyone's going to operate in that self-survival mode. It's going to corrode the connection that could inherently be there, you're going to be less trusting of those around you because we're all operating from that position of fear. So there are things that you can do as a leader that are simple to show that authenticity, to show that compassion without compromising on, you know, your priorities or your goals or your needs. Well said. You know, I'm in and out of organizations all the time. And you can see those organizations that speak to authenticity, that speak to compassion, and psychological safety, but at the same time, there's a certain set of expectations that need to be met. And people are willing to have those hard conversations, but at the same time support people. And then you can see it go from top down. It just infects everyone, this emotional contagion you speak to mirror neurons. But at the same time, you can see other organizations that are very transactional, just that are very profit driven. That emotional contagion or that contagion, That affects all levels of leadership. And as you said, people move into the self-preservation mode. I need to protect me and my own. This is when you get silo mentality, from my experience, and you lose part of the picture. It becomes very tribal, very competitive when you're trying to work as an organization towards something. Just because of time the third point is to sort of the the collective innovative the collective intelligence could we drop into that. Yeah, I think the beautiful part of this is that so much of what we've been talking to really just lends itself beautifully to this third idea of harmonizing. We want to harmonize. And it's very simple when it comes to how, as leaders, can we harmonize, right? We want to foster a culture where people feel safe enough to collaborate boldly and experiment boldly with one another, right? The more that we are able to have and find these invisible strings between my way of thinking and your way of thinking, the greater our collective potential for innovation is going to be. But if you create, as you mentioned, if you create an environment where people feel the self-preservation, this idea of I'm only going to watch my back and I'm only going to keep my great ideas to myself and I'm only going to help myself, then you are going to completely, again corrode the possibility that real connection can be forged where someone can say I trust you enough to work with you on this thing so that our synergy can create something bigger than what either of us can accomplish individually. So again an environment where you're having this harmonized innovative thinking it needs to be an environment based on trust. Because also another component of this idea of collaboration is this understanding inherently of this intellectual humility. There is a possibility, a great possibility, that you know something that I don't, or you know something different. And so let us work together so that my knowledge gaps can be filled by yours and vice versa. But that's only going to be possible if you make it such an environment where it's okay to not know everything, right? And I come from an educational environment where in certain areas, it is not okay to not know everything, right? If we're getting asked by our preceptors in medicine known as pimping, if you're getting questions that are pimped, you're getting pimped on questions and you don't know it in front of the entire group, some preceptors can make you feel very foolish. And I have seen it. It is so toxic. It makes you terrified of not knowing anything. It'll make you more likely to make up something on the spot or to make you know to to have errors because you're not willing to admit when you don't know something that kind of environment also makes it very hard to collaborate with other people because you're operating in a mindset that not only do i know everything but i need to know everything so therefore i don't need to learn anything from anyone so again you want to create this environment where it's a okay to be wrong it is okay to fail, that people know that even if you do fail. Amazing, that's on the path towards, you know, success and innovation. And that just because you fail does not mean that you're a failure, right? And, you know, I think key to being a leader is also having the ability to, A, understand your own individual value sets. Understanding the values of the individuals that you're leading, but also identifying that unifying value, that unifying mission. And every organization tends to have a mission, right? But an effective leader will... Will appropriately articulate and evangelize that mission. They will say, this is where we're going. This is how we're going to get there. But they will also articulate why we are going to get there. And in order to do that, you need to have an understanding of the collective value system of an organization or of a family. So again, that is having exemplary communication skills. That is understanding the humanity of those that you lead, which as a leader, that means you have to get curious about the people that you're leading. Do you know who's in your organization beyond their name and their job title? Do you understand what it is that they bring to the table? And I feel like a lot of leaders are just maybe disconnected in that capacity. They don't even really know who's sitting in front of them or who's working for them. So I think that when it comes to this idea of harmonizing, it is forging that deep, deep human connection between yourself and those you lead, but also within the group, and then encouraging that bold and fearless collaboration and exploration together. This is, to me, is the heart of resilience at an individual, but at a team, at a corporate organizational level. Because if you can have that connective tissue, if you can have the ability to make mistakes, but also to understand that because Jason served up some ideas, they're not all going to float. Some of them are going to sink, And Jason's going to be a big boy to accept that, but that's okay. It's okay for me to make mistakes, but at least I don't repeat them, but learn from them, adapt and do a better job next time. But the same idea, when you asked me, Chica, for what are your ideas, that some of my ideas will get shot down. They will crash and burn, but others will be accepted. And we all, by having this, by managing those expectations, I think that speaks volumes to the depth of what you've talked about and articulated today. At least from my perspective. Yeah, I completely agree, right? And I think that the only way that we can create an environment where you would feel okay enough to put all of your ideas forward, knowing that half of them might not be amazing, but that the other half might be great. You only need one idea, right? If it's that one idea that changes the world or changes the company, changes the trajectory, that would have only been possible for you to reach that critical mass of ideas if someone gave you the space and grace to fail or to not know or to be wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. That is what makes us deeply human. And I think that at the heart of my presentation is that I want to encourage people to be deeply connected and deeply human. And that is why I am on this, I wouldn't call it a crusade, but I am very much on my own personal journey where I am extremely candid about some of the really, you know, traumatic things that I have lived through that used to bring me a lot of shame. Like my own experiences with disordered eating, and I actually was just on the news yesterday, we'll be on the news again next week, talking about disordered eating for Mental Health Awareness Month. And why am I doing this? Because I am a doctor and I have several degrees and I graduated as valedictorian of my medical school class. And at the same time, I struggled with disordered eating in my first year of medical school and I was very, very sick. And people need to understand that. I am still a human. It does not matter how many awards I have. It doesn't matter how many accolades I've accrued. Does it matter if I have a Barbie? Like none of that really matters because at my core, I am still human. I am still fallible. I will make mistakes. And I make that clear to my kids as well that I, you know, I do believe that I've achieved incredible things, but I am still human. And if I ever lose that perception of myself, then that is where I think all of my creative magic and all of my own personal genius, my own brilliance, that will begin to fall away if I think I am beyond all of these things. Well, thank you very much for sharing that, Chico. Is there any last thoughts you would like to leave our listeners before we call it a conversation? Yes, I would like to say to them the Winnie the Pooh quote, which is, I believe it's a conversation where they say, you know, well, what if I fall? And the response is, you know, my darling, what if you fly? And I think that for me is, it encapsulates everything that I talk about. I actually finish my keynote with a poem that is based on that quote. And And it truly just speaks to this idea of we don't know what we are capable of if we continue to play small and edit ourselves and if other people shrink our brilliance and shrink the light of our shine. And so I think that the greatest thing that we can do for this world is to respect the humanity, the creativity, the curiosity, the brilliance of others, and then also bring our own brilliance to the forefront and see what incredible good we can do together. Dr. Chico Rewan, thank you very much for a compelling and intriguing conversation. I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for having me. As we wrap up this conversation, Dr. Aroua brought the science of leadership into sharp emotional focus. She explained cold, critical leadership, especially in high-stress environments, well, how that can activate the amygdala, triggering fear and shutting down creativity. In contrast, warm and supportive leaders help release oxytocin, promoting trust, clarity, and social connection. This emphasizes that leadership isn't just about driving results or meeting deadlines. It's about shaping the brain states of those we lead. We also explored the neurological benefits of authentic leadership. She explained how compassion and high standards aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, when leaders lead with both authenticity and care, well, they unlock better decision-making through the prefrontal cortex and foster environments rich in psychological safety through mirror neurons and oxytocin. I've seen this firsthand, how organizations that prioritize humanity and accountability outperform those driven by fear or competition. We close by reflecting on what it really takes to lead for innovation. Dr. Urua emphasized that trust, humility, and a willingness to embrace failure are non-negotiables for collective problem solving. When people feel safe to bring their full selves to the table, well, creativity and resilience follow. And perhaps most poignantly, she reminded us that even in high-achieving environments, we must make space for our own humanity. She shared her personal story with vulnerability and grace, encouraging us all to honor our brilliance, flaws and all, and to nurture emotional resilience, not just in ourselves, but in the next generation. My conversation with Dr. Arua left me with a deep sense of what's possible when we lead from the inside out where neuroscience meets compassion and where resilience starts with how we treat ourselves and each other cheeky i just want to send you a personal thank you for sharing your time and your knowledge with us today it was a fascinating conversation i hope one day i'll be able to sit in audience and hear your keynotes well folks that brings us to a tail end of another conversation. Until next time, keep well, keep strong, and we'll speak soon. Music.